August 13, 2020 at 7:34 am #500552
@RavenManiac's last question was: "How would a ProPlus member get a copy of this tool?"
From you lengthy answer I can only conclude that there is simply no other way for a ProPlus member to get "Genesis Blocks Pro and Genesis Custom Blocks Pro" then to get the whole new 'Genesis Pro' package.
Eric Hamm makes the naming confusion clear in his review which is worth checking out.
August 13, 2020 at 7:54 am #500553
Hey Baz. Sorry for the confusion on all this. With big changes coming to WordPress with FSE we're in a bit of an awkward transition time. Answers in line..
One of my main concerns is what happens to custom websites built with Genesis 3.0?
Nothing really. We'll continue to update the Genesis Framework including after "Full Site Editing" is released in WordPress Core. With FSE, the way themes will be built will be totally different than they are today, so if you want to build an FSE theme when FSE is released, you'll need to do it in the new way.
For us, the new way will be with future features being added to Genesis Blocks which will be freely available to anyone (StudioPress or otherwise) and won't require a Genesis Pro subscription to access the primary benefits you get from the Genesis Framework today.
As with every other kind of theme (Genesis or otherwise) the old style of themes (version we all build today) will continue to work in WordPress well after FSE is released.
Will Genesis 4.0+ and Genesis Pro be backward compatible for those users who are unable (or cannot afford) to update their sites to use Genesis Pro?
Genesis Pro is a package, not a product. Today it includes the pro version of Genesis Blocks and will in the near future contain the pro version of Genesis Custom Blocks. Both Genesis Blocks & Custom blocks will have very functional and free versions of those plugins, so the cost to switch would be $0.
If you find the pro features helpful, then you could buy Genesis Pro.
Future versions of the Genesis Framework (4.0+) will still support building themes in the current way well into the future. Not everyone will switch to the new way immediately 🙂
It is bad enough to second-guess what the next Gutenberg update will do to your new website, now we have to contend with what Genesis will do too!
Genesis Blocks / Custom Blocks do not affect the Genesis Framework or your site, unless you install those plugins and use them to build awesome block-based designs 🙂
As for worrying about what Guntenberg will do next, that is exactly what we are doing and is exactly why we're taking these approaches to make sure the Genesis community is ready for that with a suite of tools that help you keep winning with WordPress as WordPress evolves.
By offering free and extremely functional versions of Genesis products (e.g. GB / GCB), we hope to have an even bigger impact for the Genesis community and WordPress community than we ever have in the past.
Our goal here is to do the worrying for you, and most importantly to act to make sure you're prepared!August 13, 2020 at 7:57 am #500554
RavenManiac - We're looking to find ways to deliver a trial experience for the pro versions of those plugins. Right now the closest thing we have is the demo video by Carrie on studiopress.com/genesis-pro.August 17, 2020 at 6:58 am #500616buggParticipant
@David I really appreciate your detailed replies, sharing what you know and don't know. I'm glad to see the approach to include a free and premium version.
Since this technology is still being developed as changes in FSE #Core start to roll out, I can say the pain point is probably an emotional one. Since paying a high price point up front for the Pro Plus as a lifetime subscription and then feeling FOMO when the new things come out.
I hope you would share that feedback with the team. I'll be on the lookout for additional updates before I make a call if the new direction is for me personally.August 17, 2020 at 7:26 am #500620
Hey @bugg - I'll pass along the feedback for sure. The FOMO thing has been on our mind and we think has been exacerbated by the fact we released the Pro versions before the free ones. Once the free versions come out in the next couple of weeks, we expect FOMO to be relieved since everyone will be able to use the core value of those products.September 3, 2020 at 1:50 pm #500919
I have been using genesis with a user of themes for life and in time I already paid my subscription which ... theoretically is for life.
Now, since you cannot charge us for a subscription that we already have paid for ............ the best thing is to take out a package that you call GENESIS PRO and that is not sold separately ...... ....... we have to buy the whole theme pack again to enjoy GENESIS PRO.
I see this as a good deal for you and make us checkout twice, which means that in the end we do not have a lifetime subscription ....... if so, it would be sold as a loose product for us old subscribers and not we should pay for the whole package.
The business is yours and well thought out, but old people and subscribers are not stupid, greetings.
PS: forgive my bad English, it is translated with googleSeptember 3, 2020 at 2:53 pm #500920
Hey Manolor007. I'm so sorry you feel this way. The primary value of Genesis Pro is within the pro versions of Genesis Blocks & Custom Blocks. Of course, the package also includes Genesis Framework and some of the themes you have in ProPlus. The intent was not sell you the same products twice. We almost launched GP without any themes, but we wanted to make sure those building with GP and paying an annual subscription also had access to the Genesis Framework and themes.September 4, 2020 at 5:14 am #500933
Hi David, thanks for your reply.
The solution to be all happy would be to be able to buy the old license partners, the new Genesis Pro license with advantageous conditions or with part of the product that we already have excluded.
I am sorry that this issue has not been taken into account by the Studio Press team and you only speak of product values, I remind you that the true value of your company ... we are the old subscribers and those who arrive.
But of course those of us who paid before don't matter much anymore.
Without us, the subscribers, and the future ones, your company is nothing and you underestimate us as partners ... always remember, best regardsSeptember 4, 2020 at 5:21 am #500934
`<img src="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Nk94L9cieKTFhyKji6o9bukubRbuhdi0/view" alt="pagos como socio" />December 3, 2020 at 1:12 am #502156
I would like it noted that I am a ProPlus member of many years & feel like I have been left high and dry by the move to Genesis Pro.
As a result I have been using alternatives to the Genesis Framework with the intention of abandoning it altogetherDecember 3, 2020 at 8:54 am #502169
Regrettably, I feel exactly the same. And, I really wish this wasn't the case because I do like Genesis.
May I ask what other alternatives you're using? I've had several well-known WordPress developers recommend Oxygen to me.December 3, 2020 at 12:32 pm #502176
To reiterate points made earlier in this thread...
* Genesis Blocks and Genesis Custom Blocks are the first major free products by StudioPress ever. The Pro versions of those plugins are not included in the ProPlus all themes package. They're in Genesis Pro. Yes, we charge money for new premium offerings.
* We have invested millions in updating Genesis Framework especially around Gutenberg, released 10+ block-based themes for Pro Plus customers, and Genesis Pro doesn't include any themes Pro Plus all theme customers don't have. We've done all this despite the fact that for most Pro Plus customers WP Engine has received zero financial benefit (purchases that occurred before we bought SP). To me these are VERY community-friendly outcomes.
* Prior to WPE acquiring StudioPress, Genesis Framework and StudioPress themes had ZERO roadmap work planned to address Gutenberg and Genesis itself had only part-time engineering resources. As a prior Genesis agency owner and long time community member, I'm very proud of how we've stepped up and the countless ways we've supported ProPlus customers and anyone else running Genesis.
If all this isn't enough to keep you building with Genesis, then I wish you the best as you explore other tools. In the meantime, we'll keep investing in Genesis technologies, launching even more free capabilities, and charging for new premium offerings we release.
Again, and as always, I wish you all the best. We'll be here if you need us.December 3, 2020 at 7:57 pm #502182
I've mainly been using Beaver Themer/Builder with their beaver builder theme (no framework)
I've been investigating Sage which has a steep learning curve.
Wow Oxegen is a great find there @ravenmaniac, very reasonably priced "lifetime" package. They seem like a very reasonable community targeted crew too, much like StudioPress was originally.December 4, 2020 at 4:48 am #502187
You supply a long list of perfectly understandable motivations for the way you offer Genesis Pro to all users.
What I do not see in your reasoning is the understanding that long term customers and user of Genesis are and feel special. If I would treat my loyal customers the way you do with users who have been loyal to Genesis I would quickly be out of business.
Emotionally those customers deserve a special treatment to keep them aboard and insure that they will continue to be Genesis Ambassadors.
I would suggest to offer existing users something like 5% discount for every year they have been StudioPress customers. That way they would see that you really wish them to stay aboard instead of just wishing them luck and saying goodbye.
December 6, 2020 at 7:19 pm #502216
Very true about the “cut & pastel” rhetoric from StudioPress & the feelings of founding customer/members, there @And_or
I ended up paying a bit more for Thrive Themes Acency as they have a statement on their “grandfathering” policy, and appear more ethical. Plus, I have heard of a number of instances of increased Google traffic after switching from Genesis to a thrive theme.December 7, 2020 at 6:37 am #502222
The "unethical" charge is way unfair. Launching new pro plugins which aren't available for free to people who bought an "All themes package" is in no way "unethical". I get that you may not like that decision, but it's certainly not unethical.
Also, we did offer grandfathered discounts for all StudioPress customers for GP.
If you have a provider willing to give you anything they ever make for free, and you believe in their ability to keep investing in, improving, and maintaining their software, then that sounds like an unbelievable deal. I don't know of any providers who do that.December 7, 2020 at 7:05 am #502223
Hi David, hold your horses. no one said you are unethical. Also I did not ask you to give anything for free. I just pointed out that by giving long time Genesis users a well deserved advantage you would show respect and would prove that you are serious about wanting to keep them aboard.
It does not cost you anything and would probably be a good investment in goodwill and the positive image of your company.
December 7, 2020 at 10:33 am #502226
When you have a moment, can you please remind everyone what the grandfathered discount is for StudioPress Pro Plus customers that upgrade to Genesis Pro?
Also, has WPE decided not to offer the Genesis Pro plugin as a standalone product, which would seem to solve many of the issues voiced in this thread?
Thanks!December 7, 2020 at 12:57 pm #502230
Happy to. All StudioPress customers were emailed a coupon for $90 off the price of GP. That coupon was emailed to all SP customers.
As for the pro plugins in the Genesis Pro package (Genesis Blocks Pro / Custom Blocks Pro), we are looking at options to split this out from the themes, etc. after hearing this feedback.
As mentioned before, we almost didn't include themes at all in the GP package. This would have still been for the $360/year price point.
We ended up adding themes to the GP package as we were winding down the Pro Plus package for new customers and there wasn't an "all themes" option anymore.
We didn't increase the price for the GP package when we made this decision which is why we didn't think people would think they were being "charged twice" if they bought the GP package. I get why it feels that way though, which is why we're looking into what we might be able to do.December 7, 2020 at 3:09 pm #502233
Thanks for your response, David. Just so you'll know, I don't recall receiving a $90 coupon, but I may have missed it—especially if it was sent by a company other than Studio Press. As for splitting out Genesis Blocks Pro (not sure what Custom Blocks Pro is), I'm encouraged that you and your team are giving that some thought.
I know you're taking a lot of heat on this and I'm really sorry about that. The important thing to remember is that you have a tremendous amount of loyalty here, which is why everyone is voicing their concerns. To me, it's clear that my fellow Genesis Pro Plus owners do value their relationship with Studio Press. If they didn't, they would just tell you to take a hike and move on. But, as you can see, that's not happening.
On a personal note, I want you to know that I do appreciate your efforts on our behalf. I think everyone here wants to move forward with Studio Press and WPE. We just need to feel like you appreciate us as much as we value you, and the best way to demonstrate that is with some kind of mutually-beneficial upgrade path. 🙂
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