January 3, 2016 at 9:53 am #175451ushaMember
Hi. Am new to WordPress and was just thinking about going for genesis framework to setup my blog. This thread caught my attention (and alarmed me as well) as the major pro of Genesis was one time fee for buying frame and theme.
What is the last cutoff date to buy genesis framework and theme as per the existing policy of one time fee? Would be glad to get a reply.
Edit: I am looking forward to buy a single theme. Am not a developer.January 3, 2016 at 10:32 am #175458devParticipant
I don't know why I didn't (don't) get SP email since I get email about one-off sales, Rainmaker, etc., unless maybe I inadvertently unsubscribed. How/where does one sign up? (I thought all Pro customers were automatically signed up.)
Also go have a look at other WordPress theme companies and take a tally how many have a one time fee and how many have recurring charges.
I think everyone is aware of the changes, and I've written widely on the subject... you might be interested in this missive http://bit.ly/1PFFG20 I wrote and updated not too long ago.
A company can spin and rationalize every pricing plan but if the customers either can't afford it, or don't like it... well they look for something else. Just take a look at new-found interest in graphic software to 'avoid' the "hated" Adobe rental scheme of Creative Could... lots of people in the graphics sector are trying to see ifPixelmator, Affinity, Gimp and others will work for therm . And take a look at all of the 'new' interest in Libre Office in response to Microsoft's Office 365. (I own a book publishing company (Adams-Blake Publishing) and so I'm recent on the issues with these two vendors.)
I tend to think that the theme/plugin industry has not thought through the concept of "hostage ware" all that well. Adobe and MS can get away with it because there are not many alternatives in their class of product. But Genesis and themes and plugins? It is an entirely different situation... and for a company so loved by its clients, it will be interesting to see if that love persists when people who never filled out a support tix and how never need any new functions, are forced to pay for an update because WP 4.x or 5.x broke their framework or theme.
You ever hear of "New Coke?" Coke basically said "We don't need to do market research... they love us so much they will drink/buy anything we put out." Fail!
Same with Tide detergent (the fragrance was changed.)
How much do you know about what is going on in the pharma industry now?
Have you had Cable TV for a number of years and see how well they are loved by their customers?
Maybe Copyblogger can pull this off, but they sure have not done a good job so far. Their whole campaign has been built around arrogance... "We're so popular that our clients will pay us whatever we ask, no matter how often."
Bottom line, I've not heard one world from the company about how this is good for me... their customer.... which tells me that... they don't really care.
YMMV.January 3, 2016 at 10:55 am #175460SummerMember
I'm confused about what you're complaining about. There are so many developers that have yearly fees for premium themes and plugins, and have had them for years... this isn't something that came about in 2015, more like 2007.
Yearly pricing for support and updates has been a thing for a long time. At least StudioPress isn't pulling a bait and switch with those fees like Woo did with WooCommerce back in 2012. That was a heinous gear shift you would have been right to get your back up about... this change, not so much.
As for how it's good for you, you keep getting official support and updates for your themes, as well as new themes, and they stay in business to be able to provide those services to you.
If someone who's only purchased a single theme in the past needs support or an update, they can pay for a single year's support for just that theme, or else not. That's the way other Geneis shops have handled those needs, so I would be surprised if SP doesn't do the same thing. The only difference I see here is that SP heavily promoted the Pro Plus sale because it provides the largest value for end users, which I'm guessing has you assuming that for future updates, people have to buy the entire kit and kaboodle or be left out in the cold?
I'd be willing to bet that's not the case... plus, their new package deal fees are still cheaper than what you'd pay to Woo or WPMU Dev these days.
http://my.studiopress.com/pro-plus/ (the link currently available from the Shop for Themes page)
January 3, 2016 at 11:43 am #175463devParticipant
Summer I understand your POV. I do.
I won't re-post mine as it is spelled out in the blog-link in my previous posting.
I do want to politely and with civility disagree with TWO items you brought up.
First: We have been doing websites for people (mostly book authors) since way before 2007... more like 1996... straight HTML, Front Page, Cold Fusion... and we first used WP in 2005. (I started in the computer industry in 1974 working for Ross Perot's EDS. I was about 26 at the time. So while I'm not quite over the hill, I can sure see the top of it!! 🙂 )
Of course IBM, Oracle, IDMS, and all the other large vendors had (huge) yearly license fees... but their clients (large, rich, corps.) found that the value was there... to say nothing about having no alternatives.
It wasn't until 70s and early 80s that mini-computers started to chip away at the mainframes... and had much more favorable license and support terms for customers... to say nothing about how much cheaper the boxes were.
Then, of course, the micro-computer (does anyone call them that anymore?) revolution hit with the IBM PC (after a flurry of CPM machines (anyone remember the Osborne or Kaypro?)) which brought businesses the ability to install an array of cheap computers without huge yearly fees and rather low cost (and often free) software. (Anyone remember Wordstar, Borland, DBase, etc?)
Anyway, have you thought about why Automatic has not instituted yearly license fees on WordPress.org products? I know why, but it would take a lot of electrons here for me to explain it, and I don't think anyone would care anyway. But do think about it.
As for the tired old argument that "This is good for you because it allows our company to stay in biz" my retort is that CB and SP have been highly successful with their "free forever" licensing TOS. I fail to see how they would go out of biz if they didn't change their pricing platform. But I can see many ways how they could go out of biz if they do... same for theme and plugin developers.
There are two issues that these companies have to overcome:
- Web shops like ours have only so much money that they can budget for tools... themes, plugins, etc. They are not going to buy 100 themes and pay yearly fees on all of them. And they are not going to buy so-called 'pro packages' for say $500 each and then pay half that EACH YEAR... to 10 theme companies... and 20 different plugin vendors.
- It is not easy to sell the idea to small clients that they have to pay $2000 for their website with a theme and ten plugins that together will require them to pay $50 EACH a year... $550... making it $2,200 over a 4-year site lifetime. (And I'm terrified to try to SELL that to them... and I'm a much better salesperson than most... I've been doing it for thirty years now!)
Second: I'm not complaining. I'm simply stating my viewpoint that those of you who own/run web design shops, should think through how these industry pricing changes (I call them 'money grabs' 🙂 ) will not be beneficial to YOUR biz... and that of your clients. Please understand that just because a vendor says "This is good for both of us" ... most often it is only good for them.
I know many of you are young and have not had a lot of business-ownership experience... so take this advice from an 'old dog' who has been running businesses since leaving his only full-time job (at EDS in 1980:)
"There is only one boss. The customer. And he can fire everybody in the company from the chairman on down, simply by spending his money somewhere else. - Sam Walton (Founder of Walart.)"January 3, 2016 at 12:18 pm #175470
If you have any other concerns or comments, you should submit a ticket to StudioPress: my.studiopress.com/helpJanuary 3, 2016 at 12:22 pm #175473January 3, 2016 at 3:11 pm #175487TomParticipant
It is in the email we sent out and we have replied this way to numerous inquiries in desk. Also, the new pricing only applies to the PRO PLUS pack going forward. It does not apply to single theme purchases.
I've received nothing in email, as both a Pro Plus customer and affiliate.
If you are looking for an official statement that you are grandfathered in – this is it.
There is nothing on copyblogger.com or StudioPress.com that announces this "change" and new policy except this random forum thread; no blog posts; the pro-plus sales page is unchanged. (And
When will StudioPress actually document what it is that is going on?
January 3, 2016 at 4:17 pm #175491SummerMember
@Dev, I did vote with my money, deciding not to purchase or use items from WPMU Dev or Woo any more. And I've been in the computer game almost as long as you have, and I started out with Unix (AT&T, DEC and HP) during those early days.
So my question for you is: if StudioPress' user base expands which increases demands on the official support channels, but they have no matching increase in revenues to fund expanded hours or support staff, how long do you think it would be before a drop in quality support or worse, quality products, affected how many new customers come on board? Would they be able to stay in business with poor quality products and support that became less and less responsive as time went by?
Many of us already pay yearly fees to Gravity Forms, some to Yoast, and some to a host of other theme developers for frameworks other than Genesis. So, you are free to move your clients to a different framework, no one is stopping you or trying to talk you out of doing that. But I think you'll find that eventually, some of those other frameworks will cost you as much or more going forward, for all of the same reasons.
As for the inconsistency of communication, all I can say is that historically, SP has never been very good at that, and I merely assumed that everyone received the same emails I had... in fact, I usually get double emails for SP news, new SP releases, Copyblogger webinars and more, typically one from SP, and one from Copyblogger (as a consequence of having purchased Premise oh so looooong ago).
I had expected the new pricing structure to be posted on Jan 1, but I guess we'll find out on Monday, Jan 4? Hopefully? The price changes do affect those clients who want to purchase their own single-theme licenses, so knowing what to tell them to expect going forward would be helpful for me.
January 3, 2016 at 5:53 pm #175502
If you have any questions of StudioPress, you should reach out to them directly: my.studiopress.com/helpJanuary 4, 2016 at 8:15 am #175550Andrea RennickMember
@tom the offer was sent to users who do not have Pro Plus. You have pro plus. This doesn't affect you, ergo, it was not sent to you. 🙂
The only affects new customers buying Pro Plus. The recurring fees haven't been announced but will be soon.
Anyone who needs further clarification can file a ticket. I'm closing the thread as all questions have been answered.
If you need technical support for your theme please file a ticket.
The forums are community based. Staff only monitors the forum for issues relating to the forum itself and to redirect users to where they need to go.
- The topic ‘SP to end unlimited support in Jan.’ is closed to new replies.